Tuesday, March 08, 2005

Testimonials for using minerals for CFIDS-Lyme

People may wonder ‘where is the evidence?’ If these mineral treatments such as Salt/C are so important for CFIDS and Lyme and related illnesses like FM, then why don’t we know about this? Well, there are anecdotal reports of success.

The owners of the LymePhotos.com site have gotten well from Salt/C, and their testimonies are on that site. The moderator of the Yahoo LymeStrategies group, Marc Fett, got well from Salt/C after going the usual route of trying ‘everything under the sun’ and he claims to be completely well and on a low maintenance dose of Salt/C. He customized the protocol a bit, adding a few items, which probably contributed to his recovery, and Marc was able to return to work after about 3 months. You must purchase access to his ‘e-book’ style web page to get his exact protocol, but the group discusses the protocol, it is mostly there in the LymeStrategies list. Marc probably is the most knowledgeable non-medical person around on the Salt/C protocol. And I haven’t found many medical folks who understand the issues better.

There have been a number of testimonials in that group from people who have had dramatic improvements on Salt/C, a few believe they are on the road to recovery, but the site is recent, starting in November 2004. There are thousands of messages on that site now and dozens, and maybe a hundred positive testimonials. There is no tracking of how many people try it and quit, so the stats are unknown. In my own case, I tried salt/C about a year ago based strictly on the LymeStrategies site, and I gave up after a month because of the back and kidney pain I experienced. But I tried it again in December 2004, and this time I decided that I would find the salt/c serving that worked for me, and did not try to target the levels that worked for Nancy (owner of LymePhotos). And this time it worked much better, I have been able to manage the protocol better and manage the back/kidney pain by adjusting the dose and targeting lower serving levels. And the protocol has restored some important functions, such as having energy to work much of the day again. But I am not completely recovered like Marc and Nancy. However, I haven’t braved the full dose yet either, I’m going slow. Nancy was sick for 13 years and took several years to recover fully on salt/c.

A recent paper by Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt describes his successful use of salt/c for the first three months of a Lyme treatment protocol. Dr. Klinghardt's goal for the salt/c is parasite eradication. He believes he sees evidence that it helps his patients. The paper is here.

The Blasi protocol also uses minerals, but for FM. I have been monitoring the Yahoo Blasi group and have read a lot of positive testimonials, but a lot of people don’t get immediate effects and some get a bad healing crisis, and some quit. Also, I have heard from some people on other groups that they got worse on the Blasi protocol, even after prolonged use. My own ‘hunch’ is that the mineral mix of the Blasi protocol contains too much potassium for people with late-stage adrenal exhaustion or genetic adrenal weaknesses (I have read that those people need to be careful of potassium because of adrenal issue). I tried a ‘home-made’ Blasi mix (not hard to do), and it definitely did something, but I got bad tinnitus from it and some strange head sensations. Still, I felt better that day than usual, so I think it probably is a credible treatment for some people. A study is in progress by the company that sells the Recuperat-Ion product that Blasi used, perhaps that will reveal the contraindications better.

Clearly there is a key mineral depletion issue with CFIDS, and these protocols seem to be addressing that. But also, I believe there is some grass-roots evidence that people need specific and perhaps individualized mineral treatments. Nearly everyone who tries Salt/C seems to benefit to some level. I have yet to hear of a story of someone getting worse and staying worse, only healing crisis types of responses that passes. And even people with Blood Pressure issues notice eventual BP improvement after a period of worsening.

Mineral treatment is a very interesting direction, and I believe will eventually be explained and will become an important part of a long-term CFIDS solution.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Kurt, I know this is an old post but thought I'd share my experience with Recuperat-ion. The mixture has a remarkable mood lifting effect on me. The effect is sometimes within minutes. I feel very euphoric on it, almost orgasmic. My nasal allergy disappears and my body feels warmer too. I purchased the exact same ingredients and I have a very fine scale. I tried to duplicate the formula according to the label but no matter how much I tried I failed to duplicate the effect and in fact I got worse on my mixtures with the strange head symptoms. I wonder what is going on here, whether the lable does not reflect the contents.


April 19, 2011 at 5:15:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Kurt said...

Hi Alex,
I have heard this before, people have a hard time duplicating that formula. There have been posts on online groups where there were some successes. I believe one of the measures is easy to misunderstand, but sorry don't remember the details. I still have some old Recup, now you make me curious to try that again :)

April 19, 2011 at 6:01:00 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Kurt,

The osmolarity figures are listed on the label at this link:

If you have a knowledge of chemistry and work backwards you will discover that the weights don't match what is listed on the label.

Blasi has a patent filed here:

The patent offers a little more detail and lists the proposed amount of Chloride ions. Using that and working backwards you can arrive at the amount of Sodium Chloride in the mixture. Here are my calculations.

The patent lists the following amounts of
Ions in g/l

Sodium 1.48
Potassium 0.40
Calcium 0.03
Magnesium 0.03
Chloride 0.70

Note these quantites appear to be for two sachets because the label on the sachets list exactly half these amounts.

Using the molecular weight calculator here

Elemental Potassium makes up ~ 52% of KCL

Elemental Potassium is listed as 0.4 g in the patent and since the form of potassium used is KCl

Therefore 52% of KCl = K
KCl = K/52% = 0.4/52% = 0.77 g

Also, since
KCl = K + Cl
The amount of Chloride contributed by KCl is
Cl = KCl - K
= 0.77 - 0.4 = 0.37

The patent lists total Chloride as 0.70

Total Chloride = Chloride from KCl + Chloride from NaCl


Chloride from NaCl = Total Chloride - Chloride from KCl

= 0.70 - 0.37 = 0.33 g

According to the molecular calculator

61% of NaCl comes from Cl


NaCl = Cl/61% = 0.33/61% = 0.54 g


NaCl = Na + Cl

Therefore the amount of Na in NaCl is

Na = NaCl - Cl
= 0.54 - 0.33 = 0.21 g

The patent lists total Na as 1.48 g.

Total Na = Na from Na citrate + Na from NaCl


Na from Na Citrate = Total Na - Na from NaCl
= 1.48 - 0.21
= 1.27 g

Now if we use Trisodium citrate dihydrate, which is what is commonly sold as sodium citrate, its formula is (Na3C6H5O7)(H2O)2 . If you plug that into the molecular calculator, you see that the Na percentage is 23%.


Na = 23% of Na citrate
Na Citrate = Na / 23%
= 1.27 / 23%
= 5.52 g

Calcium Calculation

The patent lists elemental Ca as 0.03 g from Calcium Phosphate

If we assume Tricalcium Phosphate, Ca3O8P2,
according the mol calculator it contains ~39% Calcium


Calcium Phosphate = 0.03/39 = 0.08 g


Magnesium calculation

The patent lists elemental Mg as 0.03 g from Mag Carbonate

The Mol wt calculator lists Mg Carbonate as having 29% magnesium


MgCO3 = 0.03/29% = 0.10 g


So according to the above calculations, two sachets would consist of the following amounts of minerals:

Trisodium Citrate Dihydrate 5.52 g
NaCl 0.54 g
KCl 0.77 g
CaPhos 0.08 g
Mg Carb 0.10 g


April 20, 2011 at 5:08:00 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Kurt. I guess I spoke too soon. After getting several weeks of positive benefits from Recuperat-ion, it eventually started making feel worse than when I started and I have had to discontinue it.


May 9, 2011 at 5:02:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Kanon said...

Alex's calculations use approximate values for the percentages. Using more accurate percentages, the formula is:

Trisodium Citrate Dihydrate 5.378 g
NaCl .556 g
KCl .76272 g
CaPhos .0774 g
Mg Carb .104 g

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I figure if people are finding their preparations inferior to the real Recup (plus Blasi himself saying extreme precision is required), it might be a good idea to be as precise as possible.

A 28-30 dose (approx. 100 gram) batch would be:

Trisodium citrate dihydrate: 77.102 g
Sodium chloride: 7.971 g
Potassium chloride: 10.935 g
Magnesium carbonate: 1.491 g
Calcium triphosphate: 1.110 g

October 10, 2013 at 2:41:00 AM EDT  

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